The Hope of Two Thousand Years
A conversation with a Jewish historian on optimism in a time of war
Our hope is not yet lost,
The hope of two thousand years,
To be a free nation in our own land,
The land of Zion and Jerusalem.
—The Hatikvah (The Hope), Israel’s national anthem.
Reuven Spero is a history teacher at Alexander Muss High School in Hod HaSharon, Israel. He writes a blog at The Times of Israel and describes himself as a refugee from Kentucky, where his family lived for 200 years. In my post, Bitter to the Burned Mouth, I wrote about acceptable loss and how we can know when Israel has gone too far. Reuven and I discussed the subject at length and he later wrote an essay, “The Abyss,” based on our exchange, which I offer below. It begins with Reuven responding to a line at the end of my essay, in which I wrote, “Every time you want to comment on the war in Gaza, before you do, fix the image of a suffering Gazan child in your mind, and let that be your emotional gut-check on your own opinion.”
David,
And also keep in one’s mind the images of beheaded Israeli babies, bodies burnt beyond recognition, women gang-raped, murdered and mutilated — and realize that Israel is fighting for them as well as for — not against — that suffering child in Gaza. It is easy to be seduced by power, by ideology, by the evil of one’s enemies. Not all Israeli or Israeli soldiers are immune to such seduction, but over time we do see that the Israeli army as an institution adopts policies to restrain the beast within, and the soldiers who lose themselves inside the abyss are rare. One policy aimed at restraining the beast is to make sure that Israeli soldiers get home to the civilizing influence of their families and communities, sometimes just for a day or a shabbat. While I always thought that the wrenching shift from war to warmth to war again might result in numerous AWOL soldiers, in fact it motivates while also renewing belief in things that are good and warm. I am wary of the trust in power that our army seems to embrace. I think the army and government has shown that we remain faithful to the values that make Israel a Jewish state, while our enemies have shown that our acquisition and use of power is unfortunate, but justified.
I’m not saying they are not human. What I am saying is that I am shocked at myself for thinking, for believing with no supporting evidence, that humans like this could not actually exist in our day.
I study and teach history, and specifically Jewish history. I have read accounts of slaughters, from Crusade to Chmielnicki to Hevron. A good Enlightenment Jew, I believe in progress, both technological and human, yet I know that a mere dozen years before my birth, Jews were still being slaughtered in a way that reflected technological perfection, of a type. My shocking revelation on October 7 is how ideologically unprepared I was for the brutality, joyous brutality of the slaughter. And the joyous brutality of those of the enlightened West who supported the slaughter.
To put it in your paradigm: we are confronted with people who simply have no abyss. There is nothing inside of them that is reflected by a mirror of humanity. I’m not saying they are not human. What I am saying is that I am shocked at myself for thinking, for believing with no supporting evidence, that humans like this could not actually exist in our day. Can one say another human being is soulless without losing one’s own soul? I think the answer to that is yes — and I believe that is a foundational idea of the Jewish people.
The issue then becomes how one does battle against the soulless. The American government seems to believe that they should be rewarded with a state. Kick the problem down the hill for a few years until the next slaughter and reprisal, some more dead Jews at the hands of the soulless ones, and some of them and their children will die too.
The strategy of Hamas is called muqawamah. It means long-term, low-scale, asymmetric warfare aimed at the moral attrition of one’s enemy. It is the “M” of the acronym of the organization called Hamas. Every time an episode like this erupts, we deal with it, but the cost over time will eventually undermine our country. I don’t know if that could happen, nor do I know if our country could survive the kind of steps that would need to be taken to distance this threat from our borders, even if that led to a better life for both sides.
But we have to look and we have to see. We have to see, as you said, the cost of taking up arms to fight against this expression of inhumanity, a fight we neither asked for nor desire, but one from which we are adjured to press. We have to see that suffering Palestinian child and know she is suffering because her leaders see her more precious as dead rather than alive. And we can’t let that image stop us, weaken us, from fighting this war relentlessly, without quarter, because that is the only response I can reasonably take when I see the images of the butchered, maimed, slaughtered, and burnt of October 7. When I think of the hostages still held by the soulless.
It has nothing to do with the numbers. I don’t know why you left the path of talking about morality in our day and turned to numbers. We need clear moral sight much more than we need a scorecard. Proportionality says nothing about the rights and wrongs of a conflict, and we have to be clear-minded and (yes) responsible enough to be able to talk about rights and wrongs. Clear-minded and (yes) responsible enough to confront the relativism of the post-modernists and the false god of the victim narrative and the purportedly oppressed. If we can’t do that or are afraid to do that, we are lost.
Reuven,
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I agree with you that it is a moral issue and not a matter of numbers. But I chose to write about numbers because that is the most common criticism of Israel in this war, and it needs to be made clear that Israel is nowhere near exceeding any of the acceptable bounds we have repeatedly set in previous conflicts. And let’s not forget, this is all based on Hamas figures. If you have to bomb Dresden to defeat the Nazis, then you bomb Dresden. Another set of numbers that needs to made clear, as I discussed, is the level of support for Hamas among Gazans, which is far higher than the level of support Germans had for the Nazi Party. Imagine if up to 80% of Dresden civilians had known all about the death camps, thought they were a brilliant idea, and the moment Hitler was dead and the Nazis wiped away, imagine they would have been all too eager to elect the next Nazi Party. Would we not call them Nazis too? Would we consider such people innocent? You have people today who call Trump a Nazi for dog-whistling to fascists but they will not call Palestinian nationalists Nazis, even though this political movement literally sided with Germany during World War II, even though their leader Amin al-Husseini sent Jews to death camps and joked about it, even though they dance like rabid animals when Jews are slaughtered or raped, and even though they chant about finishing the Holocaust or tell us Hitler had a point. So I think 80, as in the 80% of Gazans who support Hamas, is one of the most important numbers in this war, because if you want to see the Holocaust completed, then you might be a noncombatant, but you are not innocent.
David,
I don’t disagree with you either on fact or on principle. You could have added as well that it is hard to accuse Israel of genocide when it provides 80% of Gaza’s electricity, a significant amount of its water, allows humanitarian aid into Gaza even including some supplies that undoubtedly help Hamas support its underground bases, and does not engage in large-scale indiscriminate massacres of the civilian population. I read an article in Mosaic today by Shany Mor that analyzes the hypocritical use of language and legality when talking of Israel that seems to have as its objective the overt identification of Israel with Nazi Germany. Modern replacement theology! This becomes all the more ludicrous in light of Sol Stern’s article in Quillette reviewing Jeff Herf’s research into the Nazi roots of Palestinian nationalism.
It’s just that…I don’t know, David. Is this all just preaching to the choir?
I don’t mean to sound hopeless. Part of my frustration has to do with the policies of the American government as articulated by Antony Blinken. Unable to garner any international cooperation for addressing the problem of Gaza and unable to come up with any creative ideas of their own, they choose the one path that will inevitably lead to disaster and pose a direct threat to Israel’s existence. Any time the Palestinians have been given complete control over territory, they use that territory to launch terror attacks on Israel. And then there is the underlying premise that if one gives legitimacy, money, responsibility, and power to people who have a history of radicalism and violence, that somehow this will make them responsible and moderate rather than give greater reach to their desire to destroy and conquer. As you say — 80%. Not hard to see where that leads.
And I don’t know what to do with that.
Reuven,
I know, I know, but look what happened with Germany. And Japan. Cultures can and have changed. People can change. The question is, what will be required of Palestinian culture to achieve such change? At the very least, I would say, is reeducation, which will probably have to begin by ripping the genocidal how-to garbage out of their UN textbooks. But truthfully, any real solution will probably look a lot like colonization. That’s a dirty word, but running their elections for a decade until democracy takes root and civil liberties allow the people to flourish would be good for everyone. You’d be forcing it on them, but polling tells us what they really want is genocide so your options are to allow the genocide, fight the forever war until a genocide accumulates, or force peace on them for the sake of your kids and theirs. They can thank you later. I would say let bygones be bygones and have your dictatorship if you want it, but your bygones are murdering Israeli children and Israelis are some of the best fighters in human history, so you can sow the wind if you want.
But let’s not forget, even among Palestinians you have free thinkers. I interviewed one this week. Or maybe we just bribe Egypt to manage the place. That aside, I try not to lose faith in having the discussion even though people are getting drunk on the antisemitic Kool-Aid all around us. You do have third-party observers in life and on social media, which is one of the reasons I continue to write on the subject, because you never know when someone on the fence will read an essay and have a change of heart. If you’re interested, I had a fascinating conversation with a Jewish scientist name Talia Bongolan-Schwartz. She described being far left, and how exposure to rational debate online between public intellectuals was one of the most powerful factors in her awakening. I found this incredibly uplifting. At a time when it seems everyone is siloed off in their echo chambers, here was a story of how intellectual curiosity and rational discourse prevailed. If my writing can have an analogous effect or get anyone to reconsider their antisemitic assumptions, ברוך השם.
By the way, do you write a blog at the Times of Israel?
guilty as charged, but I don't think anyone reads it, except maybe my students.
I’ll think about what you wrote — it’s true that there are precedents. Also in reaching people — there are precedents, like Einat Wilf, for instance. I’ll look up that podcast. You have lifted my spirits some before Shabbat, and I thank you for that.
I’ve read several of your posts and very much enjoyed every one. Shabbat shalom!
Shalom David,
I’ve been working through your kind and patient message last Friday, where you gave some hope about a future living in peace with the Palestinians. You gave the example of the Japanese and the Germans after WWII, and how reconciliation, at one time perhaps inconceivable, eventually was achieved. I was heartened.
Then I began to think of the differences. Both Japan and Germany unconditionally surrendered. They knew they were defeated, and for the sake of their populations, admitted it. Hamas will never admit defeat. As Sam Nara pointed out — everything, all the destruction, the deaths, the suffering of Gazans, all of this is accounted by the Hamas leadership as victory. They will build on this and rebuild. They are not looking for a singular military victory; they are committed to the way of Mukawama. It might take 50 or 500 years, but they would rather suffer for 500 years than accept a Jewish state (this is a paraphrase from a conversation Ben Gurion had with a Arab Palestinian leader in the 1930s. Ninety years of what we would call failure are for them only the first steps in a long term campaign). Individual suffering is meaningless, children with no future is meaningless, poverty, humiliation, disease, ignorance… all can be borne if the end is kept in sight.
Which leads to another difference: the sole meaning of Palestinian nationalism lies in the destruction of the Jewish state. I know that sounds like an extreme declaration, but even a former student who works in a peace and co-existence group that brings Palestinians and Israelis together admitted to me that this indeed is the case. Micha Goodman admitted as much in his hopeless/hopeful book Catch ’67. The Palestinian people was created to fulfill this task, and decades of education and narrative indoctrination has forged a nation out of hatred.
America sought the help of Germans after WWII to confront the Soviets in the Cold War. Germans wanted to regain a measure of respectability in the eyes of the West and played ball, mostly. The Palestinians are not concerned about gaining acceptance in the eyes of Israel or the West. They are on a mission from Allah to destroy the Jews and reclaim the lands from the river to the sea for the nation of Islam. There are some Muslims who disagree with them in private, but the masses are with them. A poll I saw today said the two thirds of Mid-Eastern Arabs thought the horrors of October 7 were justified. I imagine that the Arabs polled were probably the wealthier city dwellers who are more accessible, so that the actual percentage could be much higher. The Palestinians (or at least their war against the Jews) enjoy strong support in the Arab world. The most radical elements enjoy strong support among their Palestinian brethren.
You are so right when you say that must be someone aside from Israel who is running things in Gaza after the war. My candidate(s) are Qatar and Saudi Arabia. The have the money to rebuild the place, they would benefit from international opprobrium, and they can also display the necessary cruelty to chop off a few heads and hands as needed.
So I hold no great hopes for reconciliation with the Palestinians. Extending the Avraham accords to more Arab nations will help, but not solve the basic issue: they live to kill us.
Reuven אח שלי,
This has been an encouraging exchange for me as well. Yes, they do live to kill us. Yes, I do insist on leaving a candle in the window for the people of Palestine. But I am no fool, and I have eyes and ears. To bring about the kind of change we saw with Germany and Japan would require that which protesters falsely accuse Israel of doing. It would require occupying, if not colonizing, Gaza. Or a forced resettlement of Gazans to the West Bank. Operation Kriat Yam Suph, they could call it. Yes, Hamas must be utterly defeated. But you are also correct that they will never admit defeat and so they must be destroyed. The people of Palestine fully support Hamas and their atrocities, so as I have said before, they may not be combatants but they are not morally innocent.
My father was a military man, and his father before him was a World War II tank commander. Before that, we had red Russians and white Russians. The men of my family have been farmers and horse ranchers in peace time and warriors the rest. They have spent their years covered in mud and shit or other people’s blood. Men of the book and men of the sword. From them, I inherited a love of nature and learning, and respect for those who guard us while we sleep. There is such a thing as a righteous war and I am no pacifist. I believe this is such a war. We must not forget ourselves, as I recently wrote, but that does not mean go easy. I recently spoke to a veteran about the problem of creating more terrorists than you kill in Israel. His thinking was, Israel should end the airstrikes and use surround-and-cordon tactics, closing off blocks and knocking down doors. The IDF might lose more soldiers, but there would be fewer Palestinian civilians killed, and no moral high ground forsaken. Such is the work of soldiers, he said.
You mention a poll showing two-thirds of Middle-Eastern Arabs thought October 7 was justified, and that you think the real number is higher. I am sorry to say, you are correct. Nearly 90% of Arabs view October 7 as a “legitimate resistance operation,” according to a new poll published by the Arab Center for Research and Policy Studies. Having Qatar and Saudi Arabia run the place makes sense, but seems unlikely. In the meantime, I am not certain Israel will even follow through on this war. The fight against Hamas has been going on for decades. Morally, Israel could bomb the hell out of Gaza and it would be a tiny fraction of the civilian deaths in the Allied bombing of Nazi cities. So far, there have been about 25,000 claimed deaths in Gaza compared to 500,000 civilians deaths in Germany during World War II. Not to mention, the Nazi Party was elected with 44% support among Germans whereas Hamas has upwards of 90% support among Gazans. I spoke to an Israeli trauma surgeon recently who has worked on every major terrorist attack in modern Israel, and told me that from the bodies being brought back to Israel and catalogued, estimates indicate that at least half the deaths are terrorists, leaving 12,500 noncombatant deaths.
The fact is, if ever there was a case for reeducation, it is this. They do not appear to want peace. They do not want a two-state solution. What they repeatedly tell us they want, in no uncertain terms, is the Holocaust. Nine Palestinians out of 10, when polled, parrot Nazis. Soon also, Hamas could acquire chemical or nuclear weaponry that will put millions of lives at stake. The clock is ticking and I don’t have much faith that in future generations, U.S. support will remain firm. So while I am hopeful, and I do have Palestinian friends, I am also wide-eyed about the fact that Palestinian culture is rotten. So was Germany and Japan at one point, but today, Palestinians are the most intolerant and hateful people in the world, according to various polls conducted year in and year out. What do we do with this information? I am not certain. But God bless the free-thinking Palestinians. Lord knows it isn’t easy.
So was born the holiday of Hanukkah to commemorate the event. But this lesson is not simply for the season of the holiday. What Jewish people do at that time of year serves as a symbol to remind us what to do year-round. We keep the fire burning.
Perhaps an appropriate model is Yehudah haMakabi, or Judah Maccabee, the righteous and kind priest who became a great warrior and was known as the Hammer of the Jews for good reason. Our Jewish readers will know that he led the Maccabean Revolt against the Greeks and when he removed the statues of Greek gods and goddesses from the Second Temple and rededicated it, so was born the holiday of Hanukkah to commemorate the event. But this is not simply a lesson for the season. What Jewish people do at this time of year serves as a symbol to remind us all what we must do year-round. We keep the fire burning.
אחי דוד
Your letter is so beautiful and insightful on the situation here… hold on…an joke is coming on….
God to Moshe (Moses): So you bring them out of Egypt, you get to Mt. Sinai, you get the Torah, and then you’re off to the Land of Israel.
Moshe to God: Land of Israel? What’s it like?
God to Moshe: A land flowing with milk and honey, watered valleys, hills full of iron and copper, and wonderful beaches.
Moshe to God: What’s the catch?
God to Moshe: Wait till you see the neighbors!
So, the believing Jew in me says that there must be a reason why this is the way it is. Two things come to mind immediately. One is that if Hashem in his Infinite Wisdom had put the Swedes next to us, we would have intermarried and disappeared within two generations. The second is that Jews are at their best when we are hard-pressed. Like a shaky archway, more pressure on top makes us more stable. The year before the Hamas attack was certainly one of the worst in our history, and it was also one of the most peaceful. I don’t think that is a coincidence.
There must be something we need to learn by going through this experience. I believe that.
Perhaps, if we are hungry for hope, we can look at those Palestinians who, on May 14, 1948, found themselves inside the State of Israel. Certainly it is not easy being an Arab under Jewish sovereignty. Jews have long been accounted to be the lowest of the low, and to find the combined Arab armies repulsed and Jewish power transcendent is more than cognitive dissonance, it is an unnatural world, a distorted reality.
And yet, they lived with it. Israel made stupid mistakes and sometimes evil decisions and treated Arab Israelis as less than Jews. With all of the traumas and — let’s not forget — advantages and ambiguities of being an Arab Israeli, they have flourished here. According to polls, over 60% are proud to be Israeli. They have remained calm over the past hundred days, and many have extended help to displaced families and soldiers, sometimes at risk to their lives and property. So there does exist a model of co-existence and therefore hope, for those who like to hope.
I want to share a story with you, which provides its own measure of hope. I heard two stories like this today. One of them traveled around WhatsApp groups so who knows? But there were real names attached to it, so it may well be legit. It rings true. The second was told to me by a friend and fellow teacher at my school. Both of the stories describe similar situations. My friend writes:
I am in the pharmacy, buying medication for my wife. Another customer, with a rifle over his shoulder, came in and ordered something. When the pharmacist brought it to him, the customer opened his wallet to pay but the pharmacist refused the money, saying the customer is on miluim (reserve duty) defending us and he doesn’t want to charge him. The miluimnik argued that he is not in such a kravi (combat) post and gets home frequently. But the pharmacist refused, saying, you are protecting us.
Miluimnik: Hashem protects us. We are just His shlichim (emissaries).
Pharmacist: So I don’t need to take money from Hashem’s shlichim.
David, I am an old and foolish man, and I got tears in my eyes when I read this story. It strikes to the very heart of why I moved to Israel, why I chose to raise my children here despite the neighbors, despite the army, despite the hatred of the world. The State of Israel is here to provide a context where moments of kedusha like this can happen. And they happen all the time here. And I believe they change the world.
Hamas says they will win because we love life, and they love death. We will win because we love each other. We will win because the things we do have eternal significance. We will endure, not because we have endurance, but because we are connecting our being to something much greater than ourselves. It has proven itself over time, and no doubt will continue to do so.