I enjoyed reading this but I am dumbfounded by the ending. As much as Trump isn’t a paragon of diplomacy (nor were Obama or Biden they just had a rapt unearned audience and Biden could barely compose people felt sorry for him) you yourself mentioned British security institutions ignoring condoning hiding mass torture terror and rape. How is that on Trump? How is it on Trump when a British policeman tells a Jew his kippah is an instigation and he can’t protect him. How is it Trump when Germans post a sign at public pools for chubby middle aged European women not to molest legless dark immigrants. I didn’t make the sign. If a more diplomatic conservative was in power I do not think it would halt what is going on at all. There’s a strong movement not just in America but in Europe to label anyone not left far right. It’s so ridiculous and obnoxious and you rarely see if at all far left funny that. I think unfortunately you’re dreaming about something that won’t be without a change in leadership in europe. It won’t necessarily be left right it’s more likely to be a demagogue on either side. And probably too late
This is grim but open-eyed. Our main area of disagreement seems to be that I have hope for Europe. I will admit, it looks like it will get worse before it gets better. You may be right. But as Luther said, even if the world were ending tomorrow, I would plant an apple tree today.
It's not on Trump what foreign leaders do. But if Trump has a deeply needed message to wake them up, as I believe he does, then it is important, not just for general moral purposes but also for directly selfish nationalistic purposes, that his message land. Maintaining the moral high ground in diplomatic messaging by ensuring moral consistency at home ends up having real-world, military consequences.
We disagree about whether the message would ever land no matter who conveyed it. At this point it’s fantasy statecraft. If you’re not tuned into to the will of an overwhelming majority of your people…do you think they don’t know this? And what’s the response? At every level of government to label people racist to say ssshhh to arrest people but only select people for tweets. The plot was already well lost. The civil unrest so very likely in Europes future is a function of layers of decadence masquerading as benevolence. Another example- climate. If you want to pretend you have an alternative don’t go running to buy resources from messed up countries when your grid fails. Dont malign nuclear energy. And most of all don’t fly to your caviar climate conference in a private jet.
There are very few fisks. The more insulated people are from the effects of illegal immigration the more likely they are to carry on about acceptance. But it’s not about that. We have border laws. They weren’t enforced. People came here got food hotels even money cards most of them not refugees. And in nyc they were told not to work while their cases were adjudicated. Europe is filled with non workers. It’s not just about welfare not working prevents assimilation and signals the next generation that this is the lifestyle. When people used to sneak into America they largely stayed under the radar worked and while no one likes that they broke the law these are illegal immigrants people sympathize with. Long work track records. No criminal record. Then you had people pouring in without vetting and some Central American countries are failed with governments fighting gangs. I would hazard a guess that an enormous number of Americans and this includes the very immigration friendly do not support unvetted immigration. I also don’t think immigration should be lopsided. Many people from many places want to come here and can be good citizens. Democrats like sanders used to think immigration lowers salaries. It can. It’s a complex issue with pros and cons both ways meaning someone benefits but someone else may lose. What’s going on in Europe is similar to our chaos from non enforcement. It is not an exaggeration to say that people come over illegally and are made pretty comfortable. It’s not free. People are lying about why crime rises. It’s not because you have immigrants it’s because you’re not vetting. Even from messed up countries there are people who would come and respect the west value it. Obviously it’s less likely than from other countries but it’s everywhere. You can’t allow unlimited uncontrolled unvetted immigration. Even without welfare states America eventually screened for disease for criminality for potential to be wards of the state before having a border policy. It will always have a tipping point but it makes sense never to just swing open the door.
I don’t think this was a democrat plan but yes I’m cynical enough to believe this was about future votes not kindness. And almost everyone fell into place even long time dissenters.
The west is in decline and no one can deliver the message to Europe. The only prediction I’m going to make there and it’s not really a prediction bc it already happens is civil unrest. The west is still a powerhouse. China is a big competitor but they have dramatic demographic issues. The world is dangerous now. It’s going to be a bumpy ride.
Ethos is a powerful thing, and the Trump administration hasn't valued it wisely. It doesn't help when individuals in the administration seem to work at cross purposes with one another, intentionally and unintentionally...
You and I are in different places on the political spectrum, and precisely because of that, I appreciate your perspective. You have established a strong ethos with me, so your logos and pathos come across with no "loss of signal"! Grace and strength to you. Keep up the good work.
.
.
...about "loss of signal": Sometimes the metaphor of radio communication can convey the importance of ethos to people: accurate radio transmission depends on the signal-to-noise ratio, and lack of ethos or negative ethos is "noise." The strength and frequency of the signal won't matter if it's garbled with noise.
This metaphor also accurately explains the impact of social media distortions by both algorithms optimizing for outrage and individual human trolls, and especially intentionally misleading fake accounts & bot networks used as tools to deceive and inflame. These all act in the same way that electronic warfare acts on radio communication! No wonder we're having such trouble finding the common ground that is still right there... we can't see it through the chaff and dazzle, we must feel our way forward.
But when we do, we will find that common ground and mutual respect despite our differences!
Brilliant writing once again. Insightful. Articulate. Modeling that which you call for. I take your argument very seriously. Thank you.
Like some others here, I don't feel sanguine about any Europeans heeding the warnings, no matter who the messenger is. That said, I believe we should avoid the appearance of violating our own principles, even if what is done is technically legal. The United States is the only unsullied torch bearer for the personal freedoms and governmental limitations found in the Constitution. (Which is itself a reason our apparent hypocrisy is not a problem for most of Europe - they are seemingly insensitive to violations of western values.) The Trump administration may not be holding the moral high ground, but there are others sounding the alarm, voices not as strident as Trump and Vance, voices in local accents, with more ethos. I remain hopeful that Europe will find the way to recover.
Even if politicians and leaders in Europe commit to limiting immigration, the inertia of the QUANGO / nonprofit / academic / contractor blob still presses for increased and increasingly costly immigration inflows. It's a terrible and toxic dynamic, but it's decisive nonetheless. Until migration directly hurts elites or costs them money & status, it will continue in those countries. Ironically, it's hierarchy and privilege and power inequalities that are keeping the migration engine churning.
1) This is exceptionally well-written, kudos. 2) It's also an excellent critique of Europe's immigration policy missteps and their repeated failures to learn any lessons from those missteps. 3) While I definitely agree that Trump's persona makes most Europeans immediately disregard whatever he has to say (and that's a problem more broadly), it's Europe's failure to learn that makes me a bit skeptical that a better American messenger would make a tangible difference on this particular issue. For whatever reason, meaningful immigration reform seems, to me at least, to require the call coming from inside the house to get the attention of leadership.
I agree that this ultimately falls at Europe's feet, but if we want our call to action to land, we have to maintain the moral high ground. Detaining students for writing op-eds and sending home solid and law-abiding workers is not a good example of free speech or sensible immigration policy. I understand some mistakes are made, but this feels more like a break-first, ask-questions-later approach and that signals terribly to our allies who we really do need to win over. And all that aside, we also just want to do it because we want our own society to be a place where we can write op-eds and bring good workers over from Korea or India. We want good immigration, or should.
europe wont listen. all they want from usa is money & protection/ other peoples lives. they thought it was guaranteed due to their americans-are-idiots belief system, noone realised someone might appear & say NEIN.
theres a real possibility uk & eu will slip into the abyss, it will be earned & deserved.
We disagree about whether the message would ever land no matter who conveyed it. At this point it’s fantasy statecraft. If you’re not tuned into to the will of an overwhelming majority of your people…do you think they don’t know this? And what’s the response? At every level of government to label people racist to say ssshhh to arrest people but only select people for tweets. The plot was already well lost. The civil unrest so very likely in Europes future is a function of layers of decadence masquerading as benevolence. Another example- climate. If you want to pretend you have an alternative don’t go running to buy resources from messed up countries when your grid fails. Dont malign nuclear energy. And most of all don’t fly to your caviar climate conference in a private jet.
There are very few fisks. The more insulated people are from the effects of illegal immigration the more likely they are to carry on about acceptance. But it’s not about that. We have border laws. They weren’t enforced. People came here got food hotels even money cards most of them not refugees. And in nyc they were told not to work while their cases were adjudicated. Europe is filled with non workers. It’s not just about welfare not working prevents assimilation and signals the next generation that this is the lifestyle. When people used to sneak into America they largely stayed under the radar worked and while no one likes that they broke the law these are illegal immigrants people sympathize with. Long work track records. No criminal record. Then you had people pouring in without vetting and some Central American countries are failed with governments fighting gangs. I would hazard a guess that an enormous number of Americans and this includes the very immigration friendly do not support unvetted immigration. I also don’t think immigration should be lopsided. Many people from many places want to come here and can be good citizens. Democrats like sanders used to think immigration lowers salaries. It can. It’s a complex issue with pros and cons both ways meaning someone benefits but someone else may lose. What’s going on in Europe is similar to our chaos from non enforcement. It is not an exaggeration to say that people come over illegally and are made pretty comfortable. It’s not free. People are lying about why crime rises. It’s not because you have immigrants it’s because you’re not vetting. Even from messed up countries there are people who would come and respect the west value it. Obviously it’s less likely than from other countries but it’s everywhere. You can’t allow unlimited uncontrolled unvetted immigration. Even without welfare states America eventually screened for disease for criminality for potential to be wards of the state before having a border policy. It will always have a tipping point but it makes sense never to just swing open the door.
I don’t think this was a democrat plan but yes I’m cynical enough to believe this was about future votes not kindness. And almost everyone fell into place even long time dissenters.
The west is in decline and no one can deliver the message to Europe. The only prediction I’m going to make there and it’s not really a prediction bc it already happens is civil unrest. The west is still a powerhouse. China is a big competitor but they have dramatic demographic issues. The world is dangerous now. It’s going to be a bumpy ride.
This is grim but open-eyed. Our main area of disagreement seems to be that I have hope for Europe. I will admit, it looks like it will get worse before it gets better. You may be right. But as Luther said, even if the world were ending tomorrow, I would plant an apple tree today.
As far as European leaders and bureaucrats growing a pair going to have to bet against that. The gravest danger is electing someone who is the baby and the bathwater. More likely you elect someone from the other side and they turn out to be pretty status quo too. The people may get roused but enough of them? I shouldn’t compare Western Europe to Russia but I thought navalny’s brutal murder would’ve roused more people than it did. There’s plenty of bone chilling stuff in Europe from the rape gangs to tweet arrests in the middle of the night to warrant more grassroots pushback. Look hope is that thing with feathers. And as for demographic doom not easy to predict either bc sometimes in the end everyone just stops having kids and the rest of earths mammals just scratch their heads in disbelief wondering if we’ve been neutered.
I enjoyed reading this but I am dumbfounded by the ending. As much as Trump isn’t a paragon of diplomacy (nor were Obama or Biden they just had a rapt unearned audience and Biden could barely compose people felt sorry for him) you yourself mentioned British security institutions ignoring condoning hiding mass torture terror and rape. How is that on Trump? How is it on Trump when a British policeman tells a Jew his kippah is an instigation and he can’t protect him. How is it Trump when Germans post a sign at public pools for chubby middle aged European women not to molest legless dark immigrants. I didn’t make the sign. If a more diplomatic conservative was in power I do not think it would halt what is going on at all. There’s a strong movement not just in America but in Europe to label anyone not left far right. It’s so ridiculous and obnoxious and you rarely see if at all far left funny that. I think unfortunately you’re dreaming about something that won’t be without a change in leadership in europe. It won’t necessarily be left right it’s more likely to be a demagogue on either side. And probably too late
This is grim but open-eyed. Our main area of disagreement seems to be that I have hope for Europe. I will admit, it looks like it will get worse before it gets better. You may be right. But as Luther said, even if the world were ending tomorrow, I would plant an apple tree today.
It's not on Trump what foreign leaders do. But if Trump has a deeply needed message to wake them up, as I believe he does, then it is important, not just for general moral purposes but also for directly selfish nationalistic purposes, that his message land. Maintaining the moral high ground in diplomatic messaging by ensuring moral consistency at home ends up having real-world, military consequences.
We disagree about whether the message would ever land no matter who conveyed it. At this point it’s fantasy statecraft. If you’re not tuned into to the will of an overwhelming majority of your people…do you think they don’t know this? And what’s the response? At every level of government to label people racist to say ssshhh to arrest people but only select people for tweets. The plot was already well lost. The civil unrest so very likely in Europes future is a function of layers of decadence masquerading as benevolence. Another example- climate. If you want to pretend you have an alternative don’t go running to buy resources from messed up countries when your grid fails. Dont malign nuclear energy. And most of all don’t fly to your caviar climate conference in a private jet.
There are very few fisks. The more insulated people are from the effects of illegal immigration the more likely they are to carry on about acceptance. But it’s not about that. We have border laws. They weren’t enforced. People came here got food hotels even money cards most of them not refugees. And in nyc they were told not to work while their cases were adjudicated. Europe is filled with non workers. It’s not just about welfare not working prevents assimilation and signals the next generation that this is the lifestyle. When people used to sneak into America they largely stayed under the radar worked and while no one likes that they broke the law these are illegal immigrants people sympathize with. Long work track records. No criminal record. Then you had people pouring in without vetting and some Central American countries are failed with governments fighting gangs. I would hazard a guess that an enormous number of Americans and this includes the very immigration friendly do not support unvetted immigration. I also don’t think immigration should be lopsided. Many people from many places want to come here and can be good citizens. Democrats like sanders used to think immigration lowers salaries. It can. It’s a complex issue with pros and cons both ways meaning someone benefits but someone else may lose. What’s going on in Europe is similar to our chaos from non enforcement. It is not an exaggeration to say that people come over illegally and are made pretty comfortable. It’s not free. People are lying about why crime rises. It’s not because you have immigrants it’s because you’re not vetting. Even from messed up countries there are people who would come and respect the west value it. Obviously it’s less likely than from other countries but it’s everywhere. You can’t allow unlimited uncontrolled unvetted immigration. Even without welfare states America eventually screened for disease for criminality for potential to be wards of the state before having a border policy. It will always have a tipping point but it makes sense never to just swing open the door.
I don’t think this was a democrat plan but yes I’m cynical enough to believe this was about future votes not kindness. And almost everyone fell into place even long time dissenters.
The west is in decline and no one can deliver the message to Europe. The only prediction I’m going to make there and it’s not really a prediction bc it already happens is civil unrest. The west is still a powerhouse. China is a big competitor but they have dramatic demographic issues. The world is dangerous now. It’s going to be a bumpy ride.
Insightful as always!
Ethos is a powerful thing, and the Trump administration hasn't valued it wisely. It doesn't help when individuals in the administration seem to work at cross purposes with one another, intentionally and unintentionally...
You and I are in different places on the political spectrum, and precisely because of that, I appreciate your perspective. You have established a strong ethos with me, so your logos and pathos come across with no "loss of signal"! Grace and strength to you. Keep up the good work.
.
.
...about "loss of signal": Sometimes the metaphor of radio communication can convey the importance of ethos to people: accurate radio transmission depends on the signal-to-noise ratio, and lack of ethos or negative ethos is "noise." The strength and frequency of the signal won't matter if it's garbled with noise.
This metaphor also accurately explains the impact of social media distortions by both algorithms optimizing for outrage and individual human trolls, and especially intentionally misleading fake accounts & bot networks used as tools to deceive and inflame. These all act in the same way that electronic warfare acts on radio communication! No wonder we're having such trouble finding the common ground that is still right there... we can't see it through the chaff and dazzle, we must feel our way forward.
But when we do, we will find that common ground and mutual respect despite our differences!
Brilliant writing once again. Insightful. Articulate. Modeling that which you call for. I take your argument very seriously. Thank you.
Like some others here, I don't feel sanguine about any Europeans heeding the warnings, no matter who the messenger is. That said, I believe we should avoid the appearance of violating our own principles, even if what is done is technically legal. The United States is the only unsullied torch bearer for the personal freedoms and governmental limitations found in the Constitution. (Which is itself a reason our apparent hypocrisy is not a problem for most of Europe - they are seemingly insensitive to violations of western values.) The Trump administration may not be holding the moral high ground, but there are others sounding the alarm, voices not as strident as Trump and Vance, voices in local accents, with more ethos. I remain hopeful that Europe will find the way to recover.
Even if politicians and leaders in Europe commit to limiting immigration, the inertia of the QUANGO / nonprofit / academic / contractor blob still presses for increased and increasingly costly immigration inflows. It's a terrible and toxic dynamic, but it's decisive nonetheless. Until migration directly hurts elites or costs them money & status, it will continue in those countries. Ironically, it's hierarchy and privilege and power inequalities that are keeping the migration engine churning.
https://jmpolemic.substack.com/p/the-low-trust-society
1) This is exceptionally well-written, kudos. 2) It's also an excellent critique of Europe's immigration policy missteps and their repeated failures to learn any lessons from those missteps. 3) While I definitely agree that Trump's persona makes most Europeans immediately disregard whatever he has to say (and that's a problem more broadly), it's Europe's failure to learn that makes me a bit skeptical that a better American messenger would make a tangible difference on this particular issue. For whatever reason, meaningful immigration reform seems, to me at least, to require the call coming from inside the house to get the attention of leadership.
I agree that this ultimately falls at Europe's feet, but if we want our call to action to land, we have to maintain the moral high ground. Detaining students for writing op-eds and sending home solid and law-abiding workers is not a good example of free speech or sensible immigration policy. I understand some mistakes are made, but this feels more like a break-first, ask-questions-later approach and that signals terribly to our allies who we really do need to win over. And all that aside, we also just want to do it because we want our own society to be a place where we can write op-eds and bring good workers over from Korea or India. We want good immigration, or should.
europe wont listen. all they want from usa is money & protection/ other peoples lives. they thought it was guaranteed due to their americans-are-idiots belief system, noone realised someone might appear & say NEIN.
theres a real possibility uk & eu will slip into the abyss, it will be earned & deserved.
We disagree about whether the message would ever land no matter who conveyed it. At this point it’s fantasy statecraft. If you’re not tuned into to the will of an overwhelming majority of your people…do you think they don’t know this? And what’s the response? At every level of government to label people racist to say ssshhh to arrest people but only select people for tweets. The plot was already well lost. The civil unrest so very likely in Europes future is a function of layers of decadence masquerading as benevolence. Another example- climate. If you want to pretend you have an alternative don’t go running to buy resources from messed up countries when your grid fails. Dont malign nuclear energy. And most of all don’t fly to your caviar climate conference in a private jet.
There are very few fisks. The more insulated people are from the effects of illegal immigration the more likely they are to carry on about acceptance. But it’s not about that. We have border laws. They weren’t enforced. People came here got food hotels even money cards most of them not refugees. And in nyc they were told not to work while their cases were adjudicated. Europe is filled with non workers. It’s not just about welfare not working prevents assimilation and signals the next generation that this is the lifestyle. When people used to sneak into America they largely stayed under the radar worked and while no one likes that they broke the law these are illegal immigrants people sympathize with. Long work track records. No criminal record. Then you had people pouring in without vetting and some Central American countries are failed with governments fighting gangs. I would hazard a guess that an enormous number of Americans and this includes the very immigration friendly do not support unvetted immigration. I also don’t think immigration should be lopsided. Many people from many places want to come here and can be good citizens. Democrats like sanders used to think immigration lowers salaries. It can. It’s a complex issue with pros and cons both ways meaning someone benefits but someone else may lose. What’s going on in Europe is similar to our chaos from non enforcement. It is not an exaggeration to say that people come over illegally and are made pretty comfortable. It’s not free. People are lying about why crime rises. It’s not because you have immigrants it’s because you’re not vetting. Even from messed up countries there are people who would come and respect the west value it. Obviously it’s less likely than from other countries but it’s everywhere. You can’t allow unlimited uncontrolled unvetted immigration. Even without welfare states America eventually screened for disease for criminality for potential to be wards of the state before having a border policy. It will always have a tipping point but it makes sense never to just swing open the door.
I don’t think this was a democrat plan but yes I’m cynical enough to believe this was about future votes not kindness. And almost everyone fell into place even long time dissenters.
The west is in decline and no one can deliver the message to Europe. The only prediction I’m going to make there and it’s not really a prediction bc it already happens is civil unrest. The west is still a powerhouse. China is a big competitor but they have dramatic demographic issues. The world is dangerous now. It’s going to be a bumpy ride.
This is grim but open-eyed. Our main area of disagreement seems to be that I have hope for Europe. I will admit, it looks like it will get worse before it gets better. You may be right. But as Luther said, even if the world were ending tomorrow, I would plant an apple tree today.
As far as European leaders and bureaucrats growing a pair going to have to bet against that. The gravest danger is electing someone who is the baby and the bathwater. More likely you elect someone from the other side and they turn out to be pretty status quo too. The people may get roused but enough of them? I shouldn’t compare Western Europe to Russia but I thought navalny’s brutal murder would’ve roused more people than it did. There’s plenty of bone chilling stuff in Europe from the rape gangs to tweet arrests in the middle of the night to warrant more grassroots pushback. Look hope is that thing with feathers. And as for demographic doom not easy to predict either bc sometimes in the end everyone just stops having kids and the rest of earths mammals just scratch their heads in disbelief wondering if we’ve been neutered.