Respect to Ezra Klein, I remember him inviting Larry Summers on his podcast sometime ago to essentially school Klein on MMT and inflation.
Coates is not worth engaging with, he's been sainted by the intellectual left for no other reason than to make them feel virtuous, however idiotic and ahistorical his positions are.
And surprise, surprise, he turned out to be an antisemite too.
Maybe the American left can turn around, I am not optimistic: the "omnicause", and considering anybody mildly conservative as fascist and white supremacist, has become a matter of identity and very few see the imbecility in being unable to decouple disparate causes such as climate, abortion, economics and the two causes that alarm me the most because they are literally insane: trans ideology and Palestinianism (and by extension Jew hatred).
One of the reasons I find your writing and perspective so vital is exemplified in this piece.
I am among the people I've seen in the comments who stopped listening Ezra, which happened for me after the first Coates interview. Ezra is a brilliant guy and a thoughtful interviewer, but as a friend of mine put it, recently it increasingly felt like he was approaching things -- notably Israel and the pro-Pali movement -- with "suicidal empathy".
I was angry when I heard that Ezra gave air time again to Coates -- a performative, narcissistic, agenda fueled charlatan if there ever was one, and who has little to no tolerance any interpretation of the world outside of his own. Your analysis of this conversation forced me to re-evaluate Klein. In spite of my disappointment with Klein over the past 8 months or so, I both respect and appreciate how evolved he is -- and is willing to be -- even when he is "alientating his own". The bottom line is that our world needs more Ezra Kleins, and less Tanesi Coates if we have any hope of coexistance.
The thing that gets me about these progressive hate-mongers, is that they accuse and accuse and accuse without quoting the person they are accusing. It is propaganda and deceit at its finest! And when they do quote a person, he or she is taken out of context and words are twisted out of their real meaning.
Truthfully, it is people like Coates who are creating an atmosphere very similar to 1930s Germany. They create a dehumanizing hatred, based in propaganda and lies, that is foundational to the justification of murder and mayhem, just as it was in German National Socialism.
Coates has mastered the art of dressing up bigotry in highfalutin gobbledegook in order to appeal to dopey white leftist women, the type that dutifully buy the latest groupthink tract helpfully displayed in the local upscale bookseller's window. He's just another race grifter who has figured out that racism=cash.
Coates is not a midwit. He's a smart, stylish writer who has a small set of parochial, destructive ideas that appeal to a lot of people, basically because they have always appealed to a lot of people: the past is always present, we were wronged, the evil of my enemy is infinite, we are the good guys.
I've been avoiding Klein successfully since I saw his debate with Sam Harris. I'm glad to see he's gotten beyond the reflexive "you're a racist" debating point. But it also sounds like he could not confront St. Coates either.
I think that’s a fair assessment of the Klein interview with Coats but that might be because it was that same interview with Sam Harris you mention that really turned me against Klein. And in this interview we still hear that a bit in how casually he attaches the -phobe suffix to those he disagrees with. The memory of that interview with Harris lingers and I find it hard to trust that he’s genuine.
If we’re talking about hate mongering, there’s ample evidence Coates’ father published hateful, homophobic, racist, antisemitic books under his press like “The Jewish Onslaught,” among others.
Like you say, Coates never directs his righteous lens at himself.
In my view, you are far too generous to Klein. He had the opportunity and, most importantly, the responsibility to directly challenge Coates on his assertion that Kirk was a “hatemonger”; he epically failed in his obligation. He didn’t do his job. Charlie would have gone right at Coates and taken this ignorant, mean-spirited and babyish assertion to task. Mark Halperin had the best take on this interview:
The really sad part about this is that we shouldn't have to care about Coates. He's just another race hustling bigot. I mean, David Duke is still alive, but when was the last time you saw a Substack or NYT article about him, except as an analogy to his impotent ideological descendants?
The reality, as demonstrated by the Klein interview, Coates's Atlantic appointment, and his many awards and bestsellers, is that the Coates version of racism is flourishing in the United States. It's also driving some of the worst impulses that many of us have on violence, individual rights, and free expression, similar to the way that Coates's Black Panther father drove the worst impulses on the Left in the aftermath of the Civil Rights movement.
I think this is what FIRE can position itself to fight for. We need a new Civil Rights movement in the United States that fights for free speech, individual rights, and against the sort of racism that Coates represents.
I watched the episode when it first came out and agree with you. I am not going to be as generous as you towards Coates. He came across as a child in Piaget's Pre-operational Stage (ages 2-7 yrs.). He does not strike me as smart. I put him in the same category as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who damage their own people by telling them to not accept the dominant culture of success because it's white and won't tell them that their current culture is destructive.
Ezra Klein came across as afraid. Not going to say anymore about that because we understand the dynamics.
I read Between the World and Me back when it first came out as a progressive and a person who deeply believed in Coates' message. Something that bothered me deeply reading his book was how many times he talked about trying to make his writing sound like someone else's. He was so open and candid about how he was trying to create and curate a voice that sounded like one specific writer or another's. Of course we all are crafting and curating an image of ourselves at some level and to some degree, but there was something so deliberate, so calculating, and so specific in wanting to copy the style of others that it left me deeply unsettled and suspicious of him. At the time, those feelings translated to, "He's not sincere about the things I believe in. He just wants to sound like he is." Now that I don't identify with progressive (or conservative) politics, and he seems dishonest and performative in other ways. After reading his book, it always seems like he's playing a part he deliberately chose as professional artistic business decision, not something genuine or organic.
SO thoughtful. Thanks as always for expressing these concerns so passionately, and for applauding the peacemakers. Blessed are they. Can't wait to watch the interview.
I do not get this notion that Coates is smart. He produces no interesting or original or noteworthy ideas; he displays little erudition; he has no real analytical ability. Calling him a “midwit” strikes me as generous. In fact, I think the fact that he and his fellow race intellectual Ibram X Kendi are dim bulbs is part of their appeal. They allow leftists, particularly leftist women, to feel both virtuous and superior. Virtuous because “look at me; I am on the side of the oppressed!” Superior because deep down most affluent white leftists know they are smarter than Coates or Kendi.
Though I agree that Coates has been riding the DEI wave, I found this article a helpful example of how to confront and expose the utter lack of wisdom in his argument/perspective. Thanks to reading this article, I am heartened that there are Democrats like Klein that understand the importance of good faith debate - especially in these fraught times.
It’s a bit worse than just the talking points of 95 IQ people I’m afraid. These are the talking points of much smarter people than that, but designed and weaponized to persuade nitwits, while remaining aggravatingly immune to reasoned argument. This is the poison of ideology: to spread, it must be able to incubate within the stupid.
Respect to Ezra Klein, I remember him inviting Larry Summers on his podcast sometime ago to essentially school Klein on MMT and inflation.
Coates is not worth engaging with, he's been sainted by the intellectual left for no other reason than to make them feel virtuous, however idiotic and ahistorical his positions are.
And surprise, surprise, he turned out to be an antisemite too.
Maybe the American left can turn around, I am not optimistic: the "omnicause", and considering anybody mildly conservative as fascist and white supremacist, has become a matter of identity and very few see the imbecility in being unable to decouple disparate causes such as climate, abortion, economics and the two causes that alarm me the most because they are literally insane: trans ideology and Palestinianism (and by extension Jew hatred).
One of the reasons I find your writing and perspective so vital is exemplified in this piece.
I am among the people I've seen in the comments who stopped listening Ezra, which happened for me after the first Coates interview. Ezra is a brilliant guy and a thoughtful interviewer, but as a friend of mine put it, recently it increasingly felt like he was approaching things -- notably Israel and the pro-Pali movement -- with "suicidal empathy".
I was angry when I heard that Ezra gave air time again to Coates -- a performative, narcissistic, agenda fueled charlatan if there ever was one, and who has little to no tolerance any interpretation of the world outside of his own. Your analysis of this conversation forced me to re-evaluate Klein. In spite of my disappointment with Klein over the past 8 months or so, I both respect and appreciate how evolved he is -- and is willing to be -- even when he is "alientating his own". The bottom line is that our world needs more Ezra Kleins, and less Tanesi Coates if we have any hope of coexistance.
I’m not convinced he’s evolved. We’ll see. He is very smart.
Fair point. The jury’s out.
The thing that gets me about these progressive hate-mongers, is that they accuse and accuse and accuse without quoting the person they are accusing. It is propaganda and deceit at its finest! And when they do quote a person, he or she is taken out of context and words are twisted out of their real meaning.
Truthfully, it is people like Coates who are creating an atmosphere very similar to 1930s Germany. They create a dehumanizing hatred, based in propaganda and lies, that is foundational to the justification of murder and mayhem, just as it was in German National Socialism.
Yes
Coates has mastered the art of dressing up bigotry in highfalutin gobbledegook in order to appeal to dopey white leftist women, the type that dutifully buy the latest groupthink tract helpfully displayed in the local upscale bookseller's window. He's just another race grifter who has figured out that racism=cash.
Coates is not a midwit. He's a smart, stylish writer who has a small set of parochial, destructive ideas that appeal to a lot of people, basically because they have always appealed to a lot of people: the past is always present, we were wronged, the evil of my enemy is infinite, we are the good guys.
I've been avoiding Klein successfully since I saw his debate with Sam Harris. I'm glad to see he's gotten beyond the reflexive "you're a racist" debating point. But it also sounds like he could not confront St. Coates either.
I think that’s a fair assessment of the Klein interview with Coats but that might be because it was that same interview with Sam Harris you mention that really turned me against Klein. And in this interview we still hear that a bit in how casually he attaches the -phobe suffix to those he disagrees with. The memory of that interview with Harris lingers and I find it hard to trust that he’s genuine.
If we’re talking about hate mongering, there’s ample evidence Coates’ father published hateful, homophobic, racist, antisemitic books under his press like “The Jewish Onslaught,” among others.
Like you say, Coates never directs his righteous lens at himself.
https://arcmag.org/why-is-a-publisher-of-antisemitic-and-homophobic-authors-winning-a-national-book-award/
In my view, you are far too generous to Klein. He had the opportunity and, most importantly, the responsibility to directly challenge Coates on his assertion that Kirk was a “hatemonger”; he epically failed in his obligation. He didn’t do his job. Charlie would have gone right at Coates and taken this ignorant, mean-spirited and babyish assertion to task. Mark Halperin had the best take on this interview:
https://youtu.be/EpjXI2XhJOg?si=QS3PVl-Hb60xIIkt
Similar to Klein's kid-glove interview (if it even rises to that level) of Mahmoud Khalil. Ezra Klein sucks.
He celebrated the death of white firemen who died in the towers on 9/11 .
How he was ever considered a serious person after that is beyond belief.
The really sad part about this is that we shouldn't have to care about Coates. He's just another race hustling bigot. I mean, David Duke is still alive, but when was the last time you saw a Substack or NYT article about him, except as an analogy to his impotent ideological descendants?
The reality, as demonstrated by the Klein interview, Coates's Atlantic appointment, and his many awards and bestsellers, is that the Coates version of racism is flourishing in the United States. It's also driving some of the worst impulses that many of us have on violence, individual rights, and free expression, similar to the way that Coates's Black Panther father drove the worst impulses on the Left in the aftermath of the Civil Rights movement.
I think this is what FIRE can position itself to fight for. We need a new Civil Rights movement in the United States that fights for free speech, individual rights, and against the sort of racism that Coates represents.
I watched the episode when it first came out and agree with you. I am not going to be as generous as you towards Coates. He came across as a child in Piaget's Pre-operational Stage (ages 2-7 yrs.). He does not strike me as smart. I put him in the same category as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who damage their own people by telling them to not accept the dominant culture of success because it's white and won't tell them that their current culture is destructive.
Ezra Klein came across as afraid. Not going to say anymore about that because we understand the dynamics.
I read Between the World and Me back when it first came out as a progressive and a person who deeply believed in Coates' message. Something that bothered me deeply reading his book was how many times he talked about trying to make his writing sound like someone else's. He was so open and candid about how he was trying to create and curate a voice that sounded like one specific writer or another's. Of course we all are crafting and curating an image of ourselves at some level and to some degree, but there was something so deliberate, so calculating, and so specific in wanting to copy the style of others that it left me deeply unsettled and suspicious of him. At the time, those feelings translated to, "He's not sincere about the things I believe in. He just wants to sound like he is." Now that I don't identify with progressive (or conservative) politics, and he seems dishonest and performative in other ways. After reading his book, it always seems like he's playing a part he deliberately chose as professional artistic business decision, not something genuine or organic.
SO thoughtful. Thanks as always for expressing these concerns so passionately, and for applauding the peacemakers. Blessed are they. Can't wait to watch the interview.
Your timing is impeccable David! From Yesterday's First Reading for Catholic Mass:
Reading 1 Nehemiah 8:1-4a, 5-6, 7b-12
The whole people gathered as one in the open space before the Water Gate,
and they called upon Ezra the scribe
to bring forth the book of the law of Moses
which the LORD prescribed for Israel.
On the first day of the seventh month, therefore,
Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly,
which consisted of men, women,
and those children old enough to understand.
Standing at one end of the open place that was before the Water Gate,
he read out of the book from daybreak until midday,
in the presence of the men, the women,
and those children old enough to understand;
and all the people listened attentively to the book of the law.
Ezra the scribe stood on a wooden platform
that had been made for the occasion.
He opened the scroll
so that all the people might see it
(for he was standing higher up than any of the people);
and, as he opened it, all the people rose.
Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God,
and all the people, their hands raised high, answered,
"Amen, amen!"
Then they bowed down and prostrated themselves before the LORD,
their faces to the ground.
As the people remained in their places,
Ezra read plainly from the book of the law of God,
interpreting it so that all could understand what was read.
Then Nehemiah, that is, His Excellency, and Ezra the priest-scribe
and the Levites who were instructing the people
said to all the people:
"Today is holy to the LORD your God.
Do not be sad, and do not weep"–
for all the people were weeping as they heard the words of the law.
He said further: "Go, eat rich foods and drink sweet drinks,
and allot portions to those who had nothing prepared;
for today is holy to our LORD.
Do not be saddened this day,
for rejoicing in the LORD must be your strength!"
And the Levites quieted all the people, saying,
"Hush, for today is holy, and you must not be saddened."
Then all the people went to eat and drink,
to distribute portions, and to celebrate with great joy,
for they understood the words that had been expounded to them.
You made my morning, Thomas.
I do not get this notion that Coates is smart. He produces no interesting or original or noteworthy ideas; he displays little erudition; he has no real analytical ability. Calling him a “midwit” strikes me as generous. In fact, I think the fact that he and his fellow race intellectual Ibram X Kendi are dim bulbs is part of their appeal. They allow leftists, particularly leftist women, to feel both virtuous and superior. Virtuous because “look at me; I am on the side of the oppressed!” Superior because deep down most affluent white leftists know they are smarter than Coates or Kendi.
🎯
He's a midwit who has been riding the DEI wave. Not even worth spending the time to write or read this article.
Though I agree that Coates has been riding the DEI wave, I found this article a helpful example of how to confront and expose the utter lack of wisdom in his argument/perspective. Thanks to reading this article, I am heartened that there are Democrats like Klein that understand the importance of good faith debate - especially in these fraught times.
It’s a bit worse than just the talking points of 95 IQ people I’m afraid. These are the talking points of much smarter people than that, but designed and weaponized to persuade nitwits, while remaining aggravatingly immune to reasoned argument. This is the poison of ideology: to spread, it must be able to incubate within the stupid.