Thank you, David, for highlighting this travesty, this disgrace, this utter nonsense. Shame on Algeria for celebrating this “victory,” shame on the “fighter” himself, and shame on all those who promote or even condone this. May we come to our senses before Rowling’s warning comes to pass.
I read this as was pretty outraged and then realized that this person isn’t trans and doesn’t identify as trans. They have one of those rare developmental disorders where they are both male and female. It’s an important distinction. I still think this person should not be allowed to compete in the women’s category but this article is bating for trans movement outrage more than a little.
I went back and edited the subtitle, parts of the essay, and added some info at the end about Khelif's DSD. I do have sympathy for Khelif's unique situation and I think that situation is more complex than critics have allowed. But I also think the IOC's decision, and the logic it used to arrive at that decision, are absurd.
Thank you for responding! Love your writing. I agree. It’s absurd. More than that, it’s extremely irresponsible and disrespectful to the female athletes.
I got into a huge debate with a lot of people about this and was wondering what your thoughts are on Khelif’s personal responsibility on this whole thing? While I sympathize with the DSD issue, I don’t think this person can be fully absolved of their behavior just because the IOC should be responsible for making clear rules on who can compete in women’s competitions. Khelif has known for a while that they are male and have male strength. I’m a woman. If I found out that I was actually male and had male strength and could cause disproportionate harm to women, I wouldn’t throw a punch at a woman again. Ultimately, Khelif makes a choice to continue competing and I think it’s deeply unethical. Others were saying that this person was raised as a women so they think they’re a woman and nothing malicious is intended. I think this infantilizes and lets Khelif off the hook too much. Would love your thoughts!
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoy my writing! Based on the latest reporting I've seen, Khelif has been boxing since childhood and was disqualified by the IBA after a gender eligibility test revealed XY chromosomes. But I couldn't tell you whether that was when Khelif found out, which would be vital to know if we are going to claim this boxer knew all along and kept competing as a woman anyway.
Also, having XY chromosomes and female genitalia is understandably confusing, but if you've been raised since birth as a female, and always played in female sports, and it's never been an issue until now, then I would fully expect you to identify as a female. So it's entirely believable that Khelif is acting in good faith and not at all trying to game the system. I don't have enough data right now to make that assessment.
That said, XY chromosomes and blood androgen levels in the male range are a massive advantage, which is precisely why the IOC doesn't allow androgenic anabolic steroid use. So if we say XY athletes have to compete as men, Khelif should be disqualified. If we say female athletes must have testosterone levels below 5 nmol/L, or take testosterone suppressants, Khelif should be disqualified.
But if Khelif has 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency (5-ARD), which is what Caster Semenya has, or something analogous, that is a condition that only affects genetic males and so while I have sympathy for Khelif and the confusing nature of this problem, that would unequivocally mean that Khelif is a trans athlete, i.e. a biological male who identifies as a woman, and that should not be allowed.
Khelif has since interviewed with AP but refused to take questions about their sex. Today the IOC reiterated that they don't test sex. They just look at athlete's passports. They stopped testing sex in 1999 largely due to trans activism, I believe.
There are a multitude of men who will love to compete against women and even physically beat them up to further their own success. This is a disgrace against the governing bodies that should be standing against this kind of travesty. They test for doping in men’s sports to make fairness the norm, right? When will the gatekeepers grow a set of balls and stop this?
The same IOC that cleared those Chinese swimmers in Beijing who tested positive for performance enhancing drugs. They have about as much credibility as the UN.
Any idea what the basis is for the Washington Post to make this assertion?
"Despite the suspect credibility of last year’s disqualifications and the fact that neither boxer is transgender, several high-profile critics of transgender athlete issues seized on the results of the fight as well as comments made by Carini, who told reporters: “It could be the match of my life, but in that moment, I had to safeguard my life, too.”"
It could be that they feel they don’t have adequate evidence to assert Khelif is a biological male given that Russia did the tests and is not being totally transparent about it. Or it could be that WaPo chooses not to define intersex individuals as trans.
Letting men compete against women, especially in contact sports, makes a total mockery of anti-doping regulations.
Great point.
Thank you, David, for highlighting this travesty, this disgrace, this utter nonsense. Shame on Algeria for celebrating this “victory,” shame on the “fighter” himself, and shame on all those who promote or even condone this. May we come to our senses before Rowling’s warning comes to pass.
I read this as was pretty outraged and then realized that this person isn’t trans and doesn’t identify as trans. They have one of those rare developmental disorders where they are both male and female. It’s an important distinction. I still think this person should not be allowed to compete in the women’s category but this article is bating for trans movement outrage more than a little.
I went back and edited the subtitle, parts of the essay, and added some info at the end about Khelif's DSD. I do have sympathy for Khelif's unique situation and I think that situation is more complex than critics have allowed. But I also think the IOC's decision, and the logic it used to arrive at that decision, are absurd.
Thank you for responding! Love your writing. I agree. It’s absurd. More than that, it’s extremely irresponsible and disrespectful to the female athletes.
I got into a huge debate with a lot of people about this and was wondering what your thoughts are on Khelif’s personal responsibility on this whole thing? While I sympathize with the DSD issue, I don’t think this person can be fully absolved of their behavior just because the IOC should be responsible for making clear rules on who can compete in women’s competitions. Khelif has known for a while that they are male and have male strength. I’m a woman. If I found out that I was actually male and had male strength and could cause disproportionate harm to women, I wouldn’t throw a punch at a woman again. Ultimately, Khelif makes a choice to continue competing and I think it’s deeply unethical. Others were saying that this person was raised as a women so they think they’re a woman and nothing malicious is intended. I think this infantilizes and lets Khelif off the hook too much. Would love your thoughts!
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoy my writing! Based on the latest reporting I've seen, Khelif has been boxing since childhood and was disqualified by the IBA after a gender eligibility test revealed XY chromosomes. But I couldn't tell you whether that was when Khelif found out, which would be vital to know if we are going to claim this boxer knew all along and kept competing as a woman anyway.
Also, having XY chromosomes and female genitalia is understandably confusing, but if you've been raised since birth as a female, and always played in female sports, and it's never been an issue until now, then I would fully expect you to identify as a female. So it's entirely believable that Khelif is acting in good faith and not at all trying to game the system. I don't have enough data right now to make that assessment.
That said, XY chromosomes and blood androgen levels in the male range are a massive advantage, which is precisely why the IOC doesn't allow androgenic anabolic steroid use. So if we say XY athletes have to compete as men, Khelif should be disqualified. If we say female athletes must have testosterone levels below 5 nmol/L, or take testosterone suppressants, Khelif should be disqualified.
But if Khelif has 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency (5-ARD), which is what Caster Semenya has, or something analogous, that is a condition that only affects genetic males and so while I have sympathy for Khelif and the confusing nature of this problem, that would unequivocally mean that Khelif is a trans athlete, i.e. a biological male who identifies as a woman, and that should not be allowed.
Thank you for the complete and thoughtful response. I’ll withhold my judgement but I’m looking forward to clarification by the IOC.
Khelif has since interviewed with AP but refused to take questions about their sex. Today the IOC reiterated that they don't test sex. They just look at athlete's passports. They stopped testing sex in 1999 largely due to trans activism, I believe.
There are a multitude of men who will love to compete against women and even physically beat them up to further their own success. This is a disgrace against the governing bodies that should be standing against this kind of travesty. They test for doping in men’s sports to make fairness the norm, right? When will the gatekeepers grow a set of balls and stop this?
Just change the word trans in your post to be intersex. Either way, MTF trans people and Intersex people have no place in female sports.
The same IOC that cleared those Chinese swimmers in Beijing who tested positive for performance enhancing drugs. They have about as much credibility as the UN.
https://babylonbee.com/news/imane-khelif-wins-first-ever-gold-medal-in-freestyle-domestic-violence
The IOC is chickenshit and needs a leadership change to fix this.
Any idea what the basis is for the Washington Post to make this assertion?
"Despite the suspect credibility of last year’s disqualifications and the fact that neither boxer is transgender, several high-profile critics of transgender athlete issues seized on the results of the fight as well as comments made by Carini, who told reporters: “It could be the match of my life, but in that moment, I had to safeguard my life, too.”"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2024/08/01/imane-khelif-algerian-boxer-gender-paris-olympics/
Which part exactly?
The "fact that neither boxer is transgender" part, but I believe you have since addressed the point elsewhere.
It could be that they feel they don’t have adequate evidence to assert Khelif is a biological male given that Russia did the tests and is not being totally transparent about it. Or it could be that WaPo chooses not to define intersex individuals as trans.