Steven Hassan's first book "Combatting Cult Mind Control" really helped me to get out of the Jehovah's Witnesses back in the early 00's. The original version did not mention Jehovah's Witnesses, but they were described on every page, the patterns are so consistent! This was good, as because of this it wasn't considered an "Apostate" book, which were strictly verboten.
Mr. Hassan is just another intellectually dishonest smug academic who is telling me that his world view is "the one." I understand that cults do exist, but political differences do not qualify. He brings up Hitler. Hitler had a cult following of some portion but most of his followers followed him as a result of human nature not brainwashing. FDR, Reagan, and Obama were godlike to some people. Trump is godlike to some people. Oh yeah, but there is something weak, obscene, and cultish about you if you choose to follow him because you agree with his politics.
Hassan's doctorate and having fallen into a real cult does not automatically empower him with wisdom, common sense, or humility. Anyone who thinks academia and academic research, especially in the social sciences, produce unbiased experts is willfully ignorant.
The Left is equally as dangerous as the Right. The Left's search for power is still the real goal as we have seen over and over again with Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Chavez, Maduro, and others with wonderful promises and very deadly, totalitarian results. Hello useful idiots. Or maybe the Left is a cult? It has become a secular religion for many and they do seem to forget about the failures and unintended consequences of their ideology and close their minds to other ideas.
Hassan's premise is off the mark. Claiming that Trump's MAGA followers are a cult is just another way of saying that the people you disagree with are unintelligent, weak, and evil. Great way to help foster our democracy. Hassan needs to read his own book and ask himself his questions that are equally applicable to his political group.
Sorry, what is the methodology and rhetoric that a politician is supposed to use? Historically, going back to Adams, Jefferson, and on through the years things were often very "impolite" and controversial. Style, words, and ideas are part of the package. Part of your cultural ideology is that politicians should obtain support using a certain methodology and rhetoric. Democracy allows otherwise and then the people make their choice. Too many politicians hide their real agendas behind your kind of methodology and rhetoric. Do you really think your type of politician (both Democrat and Republican) is authentic and transparent? That's actually one reason why we are in this mess.
That is not my cultural ideology. Also, when you say "democracy allows otherwise," I assume you mean free speech laws, and you are right, free speech laws allows a great variety of speech types including the kind of speech that is used to manipulate people into joining cults.
When you ask, "what is the methodology and rhetoric that a politician is supposed to use?" as an objection to what I said, it gives me the impression that you either do not think people use speech techniques to form cults or you think there's nothing wrong with it. I am not saying we should outlaw such speech. I am not a free speech absolutist, but fairly close. What I do think, and I hope you will agree, is that we should educate ourselves so we can recognize when someone is trying to pull this stuff on us. That's all.
And in these times, that extends to online communication because we already have evidence, as Hassan noted in the podcast, of foreign powers using social media to manipulate people in psyop campaigns. Do I therefore think we should restrict such communication or shut down social media? Of course not, but it would be great if we were more savvy about such stuff.
I totally agree that we all need to be better educated about methods of manipulation, indoctrination, psyops, cults, and brainwashing. David, I very much appreciate your fair minded approach.
For Dr. Hassan to place a legitimate political movement in a democracy in the category of a cult because he essentially disagrees with the politics and finds some of the traits of a cult (that you can find in many groups if you are looking for those traits) is another form of manipulation and indoctrination. People following a political figure generally agree with his politics. They may even love him unconditionally. But to brand the people following him as brainwashed or members of a cult is going too far.
Would the argument be more fair to you if we said *some* Trump extremists are essentially a cult? Because I don't think Hassan would argue that every Trump supporter is the same, and it sounds like you are probably thinking of reasonable Trump supporters, then looking at Hassan's remarks and saying to yourself, these two things do not add up. But what if we think of MAGA as a coalition? I recently spoke to a former MAGA follower who said the movement is a hodgepodge of all kinds of folks who support Trump for all kinds of reasons, and that makes perfect sense. And not all of them are in a cult. But I think some are. And without referencing other politicians who may or may not also do the same thing, because that it often where one's mind goes in such discussions, I would say Trump does use some of the classic techniques of mass manipulation. Yes, some others do it too. But generally speaking, it's not normal.
Of course I believe, you believe, Dr. Hassan believes that only "some" of Trump's supporters are a cult. IMHO, he would appear more believable by saying so.
I believe that techniques of mass manipulation are very normal with people (politicians, motivational speakers, celebrities, some experts, some religious leaders) looking to convince the masses. The people buying in are not often a cult. (Although right now Taylor Swift fans might prove me wrong.)
Trump's methods and motives may be less subtle and easier to spot. Personally, I worry more about the ones who succeed because they know how to hide their motives and appear to be good. It usually involves some kind of self-enrichment. Power? Money? Self-esteem? A following?
Steven Hassan's first book "Combatting Cult Mind Control" really helped me to get out of the Jehovah's Witnesses back in the early 00's. The original version did not mention Jehovah's Witnesses, but they were described on every page, the patterns are so consistent! This was good, as because of this it wasn't considered an "Apostate" book, which were strictly verboten.
You must get him back when he has more time!
I am so glad to hear Hassan helped you in your life, Matthew. I have many more questions for him and so perhaps another episode is a good idea!
I saw Steven Hassan on a YouTube interview before. It was insightful and congratulations on finding great guests for interviews.
Thanks, Hassan is a wealth of interesting insights that are sadly becoming more and more relevant in our society today.
Mr. Hassan is just another intellectually dishonest smug academic who is telling me that his world view is "the one." I understand that cults do exist, but political differences do not qualify. He brings up Hitler. Hitler had a cult following of some portion but most of his followers followed him as a result of human nature not brainwashing. FDR, Reagan, and Obama were godlike to some people. Trump is godlike to some people. Oh yeah, but there is something weak, obscene, and cultish about you if you choose to follow him because you agree with his politics.
Hassan's doctorate and having fallen into a real cult does not automatically empower him with wisdom, common sense, or humility. Anyone who thinks academia and academic research, especially in the social sciences, produce unbiased experts is willfully ignorant.
The Left is equally as dangerous as the Right. The Left's search for power is still the real goal as we have seen over and over again with Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Chavez, Maduro, and others with wonderful promises and very deadly, totalitarian results. Hello useful idiots. Or maybe the Left is a cult? It has become a secular religion for many and they do seem to forget about the failures and unintended consequences of their ideology and close their minds to other ideas.
Hassan's premise is off the mark. Claiming that Trump's MAGA followers are a cult is just another way of saying that the people you disagree with are unintelligent, weak, and evil. Great way to help foster our democracy. Hassan needs to read his own book and ask himself his questions that are equally applicable to his political group.
It is not simply if you support a politician but rather the specific methodology and rhetoric used to obtain that support.
Sorry, what is the methodology and rhetoric that a politician is supposed to use? Historically, going back to Adams, Jefferson, and on through the years things were often very "impolite" and controversial. Style, words, and ideas are part of the package. Part of your cultural ideology is that politicians should obtain support using a certain methodology and rhetoric. Democracy allows otherwise and then the people make their choice. Too many politicians hide their real agendas behind your kind of methodology and rhetoric. Do you really think your type of politician (both Democrat and Republican) is authentic and transparent? That's actually one reason why we are in this mess.
That is not my cultural ideology. Also, when you say "democracy allows otherwise," I assume you mean free speech laws, and you are right, free speech laws allows a great variety of speech types including the kind of speech that is used to manipulate people into joining cults.
When you ask, "what is the methodology and rhetoric that a politician is supposed to use?" as an objection to what I said, it gives me the impression that you either do not think people use speech techniques to form cults or you think there's nothing wrong with it. I am not saying we should outlaw such speech. I am not a free speech absolutist, but fairly close. What I do think, and I hope you will agree, is that we should educate ourselves so we can recognize when someone is trying to pull this stuff on us. That's all.
And in these times, that extends to online communication because we already have evidence, as Hassan noted in the podcast, of foreign powers using social media to manipulate people in psyop campaigns. Do I therefore think we should restrict such communication or shut down social media? Of course not, but it would be great if we were more savvy about such stuff.
I totally agree that we all need to be better educated about methods of manipulation, indoctrination, psyops, cults, and brainwashing. David, I very much appreciate your fair minded approach.
For Dr. Hassan to place a legitimate political movement in a democracy in the category of a cult because he essentially disagrees with the politics and finds some of the traits of a cult (that you can find in many groups if you are looking for those traits) is another form of manipulation and indoctrination. People following a political figure generally agree with his politics. They may even love him unconditionally. But to brand the people following him as brainwashed or members of a cult is going too far.
Would the argument be more fair to you if we said *some* Trump extremists are essentially a cult? Because I don't think Hassan would argue that every Trump supporter is the same, and it sounds like you are probably thinking of reasonable Trump supporters, then looking at Hassan's remarks and saying to yourself, these two things do not add up. But what if we think of MAGA as a coalition? I recently spoke to a former MAGA follower who said the movement is a hodgepodge of all kinds of folks who support Trump for all kinds of reasons, and that makes perfect sense. And not all of them are in a cult. But I think some are. And without referencing other politicians who may or may not also do the same thing, because that it often where one's mind goes in such discussions, I would say Trump does use some of the classic techniques of mass manipulation. Yes, some others do it too. But generally speaking, it's not normal.
Of course I believe, you believe, Dr. Hassan believes that only "some" of Trump's supporters are a cult. IMHO, he would appear more believable by saying so.
I believe that techniques of mass manipulation are very normal with people (politicians, motivational speakers, celebrities, some experts, some religious leaders) looking to convince the masses. The people buying in are not often a cult. (Although right now Taylor Swift fans might prove me wrong.)
Trump's methods and motives may be less subtle and easier to spot. Personally, I worry more about the ones who succeed because they know how to hide their motives and appear to be good. It usually involves some kind of self-enrichment. Power? Money? Self-esteem? A following?